When you're not writing AI papers,


#1

What other things do people like to write about here? I know lovely Ben here likes himself some weird fiction (I’m still not entirely sure what that is.).

I have a complicated relationship with Literary and Science Fiction. I always start out writing something with the intention of producing science fiction, but that it ends up being chalked as Literary, Magical Realism, or some genre that’s yet to be defined. The technology in my work used to be 100-1,000 years in advance of what we have now, though now the technology I do is what I’ve personally developed.

Example of some early concepts: A Roguelike AI character that eventually 3D prints itself into our own reality with a meat space avatar, and evolves from a flat personality to a tragic character as the plot evolves.

Or the Decentralized Super-Sentient Meta-Human, basically if someone’s brain is scanned and backed up, what happens someone have multiple copies of their own scanned brained in their head, that evolved differently do to differing life experiences, and how that create a hyper-sanity that makes their personality extremely unstable. They can turn the planet into a landfill if left unchecked.

But this days, technology doesn’t have quite the same magic it used to, after I got into an artificial intelligence development. So I write stuff that’s a lot more contemporary, and more memoir like.


#2

I’m not much of a fiction writer, but I also see that the way to a future we actually want is to tell the story of the future. We are creatures of story, we are embedded in a story of culture at present and need to find a way to shift that story.

I wrote this recently when I realized just how much progress in AI and machine learning had been stirring up new hopes and fears. Certainly predicting disruptions.

http://gerry.wagn.org/The_Commons_of_Retired_Game_Masters

It is written as an invitation to help invent the future by telling it’s story. We need to tell it many ways, and in ways that help us invent and act our way towards it. Your “roguish AI” made me think of a movie with that them, but the VR become real is evil and the human hero just needs to destroy it. I hope we can do better. 1984 and Brave New World really make us think about distopian possibilities even if it doesn’t seem to help us avoid. The actual 1984 came and went and we didn’t notice most of the predictions actually are not far off.

The challenge is to tell a story that leads in the right direction whether by warning and scaring us or amazing us with the positive scenarios.

Great topic.


#3

Yea in my case, it was less them evil and more “playing on both sides of the fence”. Although it’s an older novella of mine, and … very different from the stuff I write now, which is fare bit subtler than what we usually think of as dystopia.

There is a kind of implied “degradation of ancient native homelands”, but that’s mostly attributable to human causes rather than AI, which is still very very early stage as of my most recent work.

If AGI is the mark of a new year, than it would be AGI .005 A.D.

Specifically it’s a parody of Urbanization, where old suburban neighborhoods are merely subdivision of a new city that spans the territories of Nashville to Chattanooga, and Chattanooga to Atlanta.

Noteably, where age regression can accidentally cause being sent back to high school during your mid life crises, and have adults winning high school science fares with early AGI.


#4

I don’t hold any kind of tokens currently, but I am very much interested in “cypto-economic theory” for lack of a better phrase. With AGI, I would expect it to grow with the value of services “exported” to dApps or regular apps all over.

My instinct is that if singularity.net is going to take off, it will be due to a lot of collaborating and sharing of ideas and code. The other part of the value creation story is the topic of this discussion, telling stories about being human in the future with AGIs sharing it with us. I’m very convinced that commons based production can be much more efficient than command structured corps.

We need more folks organizing this space socially in open decision making structures. Consume AGI tokens in priming the pump with flows that relate directly to community/commons building processes. Particularly since tokens are cheap now, so “invest” them in commons based efforts, even as gifts and donations to promising work. Make tokens available for experimenters to use to use other services. All sorts of things are possible and should be tried.

If you have “lend” tokens for a period, borrowers can use coin markets to cover deflation and the “investor” gets back a return based on the price gain. dApp makers should want to hedge against token price increase by buying now. Create “side” activity in the tokens that allow holders to use them in more ways than just buying and selling.


#5

Sharing repositories even? (I just mean as an example, I’m still very beginner territory.)

Plus with sharing you can find solutions to issues you might not otherwise.


#6

Currently listening to some Rudolf Steiner material and commentary. Gary Lachman, formerly bass player for Blondie on him and Goethe. My thought is that the city and urbanization is all about alienation from the natural world, which is gone for most people by this time. Agriculturally connected culture remains more connected, but this is already an alienation from hunter gatherer history.

To circle back to AIs, to have a similar status as humans in “being”, an AGI needs to also absorb the wisdom accumulated over human history. Not only the some tens of thousands of years of the neolithic, but since fire and language in our pre-human lineage. Evolution has embedded this wisdom deep in our structure and if strong AI is to be possible, AGIs must achieve a similar level of evolved connection to place and community.


#7

I think conceptually, the marketplace is agnostic to the kinds of producers who use it. Check out Benkler, “The Wealth of Networks” and his concept of “modes of production”. He builds on Coase and talks of “markets” and “firms” as modes of production and “commons based production” as something new (OS and wikipedia, my friends with wikirate), but I suspect it is actually older, but not formalized at that stage.

So, commons based peer production should be happy to use a marketplace to interact with firms and other commons producers and integrate all the modes of production in a system (network of systems -> system)

I would think that a “market” generally should be organized as a commons of producers in that it should be thought of as a shared thing (commons) that all depend on the correct operation of (sustainable, fair, different things in different contexts) each commons.


#8

Which section would I even post repositories here? Or would I need telegram for that? ( I don’t use the phone much. )

I do feel like my own development ability is stifled by my inability to install ROS. And it’s even worse now with a 32-bit OS I might switch from later.


#9

I installed telegram on my desktop (LinuxMint)

I’m guessing the tools are a mix of OS and not. Lots of cases where you need expensive tools to do things. Not to mention needing big computing resources. I think the token marketplace can do a lot of work there by representing computing costs plus some returns for the producers in tokens. Commons pools for tokens to be used in running algos and getting the data. Data from open marketplaces that reward small contributors (data autonomy currencies, etc.).

With the right “mechanism design”, crypto economics can do a lot of the work:

Ben has openned some of his work, I’m sure parts cannot because of contracts, etc. I think his is called “openAGI”. We should have a registry of open AI projects. I suppose there may be one out there already.


#10

By the way, is there a section of leftism where people will absolutely split hairs over who is a minority and who is not?

I think I’m a leftist, but these days I’m not quite sure. For one thing, one person on my Mastodon legitimately said equating robots with a minority group, was the same as the rhetoric used to say “Cops are minority group.”

Are you kidding? How can one even argue with that? It’s so nonsensical, I’m not even sure what to say.

I don’t know, I’m hating Mastodon more and more.


#11

Certainly opens a lot of questions. Focusing on “minority status” completely misses the point. It is about whether your voice counts at all within the collective.

In a sense, “harnessing” AGIs to your (evil/good) purposes brings up the issue of who has a right to “task” or limit any sentient being?

In the telegram they are arguing about whether AGI can imagine. Does it have “being”, and how is that significant.

What if political debates and contests arise within AGI networks and competing factions evolve?


#12

That’s an excellent point, and I hadn’t considered that!

Also I might take a break for a week or so, maybe a month ( if I’m totally distracted ) as I have some “Cyborgs And Paladins” fiction I need to get done.